Curse

Bront · Apr 08, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I've got 1 slot left, and I'm consistantly tempted to start a monk (I tried once before, but decided to finish stuff with one character first, and so only have a little more to go in NF and GW:EN till I've finished the main stuff in NM). I fell into the Newb Wammo trap with my very first character (He's still a W/Mo, but rarely takes a monk skill, and will probably go W/E once he ascends, as I want to fool around with Conjurs).

I have all campaigns, and I know that once you get past the start of them, they're all pretty much created equal, but I'm curious. Which one helps you learn how to be an effective heal/prot monk the most?

My thoughs, but I'd welcome others:

Prophecies: Pros: Lots of free skills, and small learning curve. Cons: Pre-Searing is 2 man no Henchies, and it's a long run to the other campaigns, so no Heroes for a while.

Factions: Pros: Most Skill points (Factions characters are the only ones who get the 6 skill points from the first 2 missions), fast advancement. Cons: No access to Heroes for a while and can't get run there, limited skill access (Though I've unlocked many core skills, so those will be available)

Nightfall: Pros: Heroes to practice monking with, Hero Skill trainers teach some skills for free. Cons: Can't get run off the island, unsure how good the Nightfall skills are for monks, Unsure how easy it will be to raise Sunspear rank as a monk.

So, any advice there is appreciated (though I do know that ultimately, as long as I'm happy with the Name and Looks, in the long run it won't matter, I'd prefer to start where I can get a head start on how to be an effective healer).

Beyond that, any tips for a semi-experienced GWer but new monk/healer type? Should I learn to Smite first if I do solo stuff (H/H it)? Are builds for H/H different that Player party builds?

My primary is generally my Mesmer, though I've picked my warrior up again for a change of pace. I've also spent a lot of time on my Paragon and RT/N Minion Master (mostly an experiment in the effectiveness of Boon of Creation Minion Masters)

Kyomi Tachibana · Apr 08, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

As long as you can manage your energy and aggro properly then you should be fine.

But when going with H/H I reccommend smiting or going Healer's Boon/Heal Party, it makes those nasty AoE's seem a lot less horrid. :3

GaaaaaH · Apr 08, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

It is possible to be run off nightfall training island (istan) by taking a docks run then being run to another continent, however i find nightfall to have the earliest ascension mission (my opinion) for changing secondary.

for pure speed to level 20, make it in factions.

my recommendation on prophesies is only on your first/main because running back to the start is a pain for completionists.

Kwan Xi · Apr 08, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I think the best way for you to learn would be to make a PvP only monk and try monking out. What I can tell you right off the bat is Monks you are going to be the most wanted on your team, BUT you are also going to get the most "love" from the enemy teams too. So if you like healing people and being a walking punching bag go for it.

As far as learning curves for Campaigns:

Prophecies: Much more slower but easy learning curve

Factions: Much more faster and intense learning curve, but I think the Kurzick/Luxon PvP battles will add to your monking experience.

I personally think you should make a monk based on the look choices you get for each campaign. Make a monk that looks good to you and if you have all 3 campaigns you can always just switch your monk to another campaign once you reach your port city.

Songbringer · Apr 08, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Prophecies or factions would be best choice. As you have can't have heroes to help you.

As for starting a PvP monk. No 1 will want an unexperienced monk in there team unless its randomway in ha. Which never wins anyway or RA. You don't want to start off in PvP if you think you will suck because you wil get discouraged.

However please beat atleast 1 whole campaign and learn how to monk first before you 55. To many people just make a monk and use it to 55 then they want to vanquish or help someone and they can't cause they are so inexperienced they can't heal through it.

Bront · Apr 08, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

What are good skills to start out Monking with?

I know Aegis is a good Prot spell, Heal Party is useful for large groups, and I've loved my Healer's Boon monk hero (I paired it with Divine Spirit, not sure if that's good). My only experience making Monk bars is for my Hero, and while I'll ultimately have to make the bar to suit my play style and preferences, it's nice to get a good feel for what skills to look at putting on a good monk bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

As for starting a PvP monk. No 1 will want an unexperienced monk in there team unless its randomway in ha. Which never wins anyway or RA. You don't want to start off in PvP if you think you will suck because you wil get discouraged.

I still have to RA my way to HA (I tried a few times as a memser, only PvP experience outside of the RAs in Ascelon and Yack's Bend, but didn't spend much time there). I might try some RA monking and then start someone.

Side Note: Can you get run to another continent from the Docs? (IE, run to Cantha or Tyria?) I have a low level Ele that I wanted to get to Tyria to pick up Fire Atunement from a quest.

Antithesis · Apr 08, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

A Healer's Covenant build is a good way to start Monking in PvE, at least it has been for me because I generally hate Monking.

Healer's Covenant [e]
Patient Spirit
Dwayna's Kiss
Spotless Mind
Spotless Soul
Seed of Life
Healing Seed
Healing Touch (self-heal) / Heaven's Delight

Far from an ideal Monk for a pro and Patient Spirit's nerfed the build a bit recently, but it does allow you to spam away on the red bars without worrying what the H/H Monks are doing.

More info about the build in holymasamune's thread.

Kwan Xi · Apr 08, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

A Healer's Covenant build is a good way to start Monking in PvE, at least it has been for me because I generally hate Monking.

Healer's Covenant can only be Capped in the Realm of Torment that is very close to the end of Nightfall, unless your willing to buy a Elite Monk Tome (assuming you have the skill unlocked) or travel all the way over there I don't think that elite is a good way for a new monk to start with. Besides by the time you do get to the boss and cap it, you shouldn't be a newbie to monking anymore.

I would go with Word of Healing instead because it is most the most likely elite your going to come across first. Plus WoH as it is now basically its the only elite everyone uses and works with almost any situation.

Bront · Apr 08, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Any thoughts on Healing Ribbon? Looks fairly effective, particularly with Healer's Boon up, but I wouldn't know from experience.

Antithesis · Apr 08, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Healer's Covenant can only be Capped in the Realm of Torment that is very close to the end of Nightfall, unless your willing to buy a Elite Monk Tome (assuming you have the skill unlocked) or travel all the way over there I don't think that elite is a good way for a new monk to start with. Besides by the time you do get to the boss and cap it, you shouldn't be a newbie to monking anymore.

Then buy an Elite Monk tome or farm Byzzr Wingmender for one. Use PvP or a PvP skills pack to unlock the elite. Getting the skill is not an issue. Having the patience to persist with a traditional Heal/Prot bar all the way to the Realm of Torment is far more challenging. Monking's too boring for me to bother, mine's been sitting in storage for 2 years until I saw the Covenant build. The only reason i'm getting it through PvE is to 55/600.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

I would go with Word of Healing instead because it is most the most likely elite your going to come across first. Plus WoH as it is now basically its the only elite everyone uses and works with almost any situation.

From a n00b Monk perspective, Healer's Covenant is an easy entry point. Word of Healing is superior in more experienced hands, but quite often by the time i go to heal that party member a Henchy's already done it and i've wasted the cast. The topic is Learning to Monk, making red bars go up is the first step and HC is a good way to learn by acting as a secondary healer.

I haven't bought many Monk skills but if i wanted to invest the time to be a good Monk, WoH Hybrid is the answer. Using Prot properly, catching spikes, knowing who the opposition is targeting and what they're about to cast, all while kiting from a melee train and paying attention to the Party bar is a long, long way off for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Any thoughts on Healing Ribbon? Looks fairly effective, particularly with Healer's Boon up, but I wouldn't know from experience.

That'll work, might cause energy issues if used liberally.

I'm sure others can suggest better skills, but from one n00b Monk to another, Healer's Covenant has been a good learner build.

Cebe · Apr 08, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Best advice I was ever given:

If they're not under ~80% health, don't waste your time healing them. Saves time, saves money, and stops you wasting energy healing up splash damage.

Watch the battlefield...check who is being hit on and act accordingly. It's not all about the red bars.

Kale Ironfist · Apr 08, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Watch the battlefield...check who is being hit on and act accordingly. It's not all about the red bars.

So then it IS about red bars... just not looking at them

the ruloes · Apr 08, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I'd say starting in prophecies would be the best idea.

In prophecies, you get the skills form doing quests, as opposed to getting money to buy the skills off trainers. I found that this first of all gives a much more complete list of skills, but it also lets you look at each skill once you get them. Instead of having to look over the 30+ monking skills you can buy from the Shing Jea trainers, to then decide which go well, you'll be introduced to skills as you progress, and you're then free to choose whether or not you want to slam them on your skillbar.

If you get confused about whether or not your build is good, or if it can be improved, the pvxwiki is a good place to compare your skills with the ones there. You can also choose a build you want to try to run from there (for instance, a basic WoH hybrid for PvE), then find out where the skills (or skillquests) are located and go find them.

As for good monking techniques, those gradually tend to build up as you play. You won't need to pre-prot much in prophecies until you come to the southern shiverpeaks, and by then you should have developed a nice routine anyways.

Sage Sanctus · Apr 08, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

I'd say starting in prophecies would be the best idea.

I completely agree here. If you are at all worried and don't trust the henchmen available to you, there is always the posibiliy of a run, I don't like runs personally. At the start I'd try to run full healer, Elite or no Elite, but be sure that if you do take the other monk henchmen that you continue to heal as she gets herself in a pickle alot of the time

If you have a few skils unlocked from core, try to take, early on, a few 5 energy spells that may be spammed, but as you progress I highly reccomend dabbling a little in Protection be it Hybrid or full protection as I personally believe that human protection monks are better than henchmen. You need to watch the battle, see who is being targeted and protect them or be ready to heal, which will prevent the whole Healers Boon+ Glyph of lesser Energy+ Heal party x 2 method

Monks arent hard to play and with a team all playing their roles correctly you should be great

I'd reccomend taking Elementalist secondary as you start for the Glyph of lesser energy, but mesmer also has its Pro's, e.g: Channeling in the starting areas can yield benefit to you if you become swamped in enemies

No routine will stick with you throughout so grab two differen headpieces and maybe a universal staff as you start so that you can decide on what you enjoy the most

Magikarp · Apr 08, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

imo, Factions is the best start.

you get a smooth, but fast start, and the missions are pretty diverse, giving monks (and healer rits) a good varience of a few escort missions, like arborstone and minister chos, allowing you to have a chance at other aspects of healing/protting, like healing special npcs, which teaches things like target clicking, tab protting, ect...

all the campaigns have stuff like that, but a lot of it is end game, whereas factions lets you really just jump into it all, but really isnt too hard that you'll be pulling your hair out. by the time you're fully ready and warmed up, you'll be doing Raisu, and you'll be good enough to take that kinda pressure/pre-protting. after that, take a boat, and start something new

Zahr Dalsk · Apr 08, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Prophecies was good for learning. Nightfall is an agonizing grind only worth it if you absolutely need a Nightfall-only class. Factions is great when you know how to play the game, and I make all my characters there now. Nice quick head start to building Legendary Survivors.

Tyla · Apr 08, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Prophecies, imo. Longer learning curve = good.

The best way really, is to turn off your party menu, and look at the field.
Don't be worried about health bars, because they show up above people's head when they're suffering damage and when you're targetting, and usually conditions have visual effects aswell (Dazed = bubbles, blind = black foam coming off eyes, cripple = limping, bleeding = reddish aura, not sure about the rest, but they do have visual effects.)

It also forces you to watch the battlefield. Which is a good thing.

MasterSasori · Apr 08, 2008, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Factions.

Fast Advancement rules all. The one tip I can give you for monking is to pay attention to your energy and what is going on in the battlefield. You must be prudent with the amount of energy you spend on one person and whether or not you can save him/her without overextending and screwing your team over.

As for heros, once you get to KC, just do the quest to EOtN to pick up Vekk and Ogden. Since factions is so fast-pace, you shouldn't have much problems.

As for healing, I'd stick with [skill]Word of Healing[/skill] and go hybrid prot. It's just one of the most efficient and practical builds out there.

Bront · Apr 09, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Ok, I started up a monk (Faith Hayes) in Proph yesterday. I liked the Proph monk look the best (though I wasn't thrilled with any of them), and it gives me a chance to get the offhand item involved in 55ing, which I might look into eventualy as well.

I must say, Healing Breeze Rocks!

(Seriously, at low levels, it's quite effective, mostly because few enemies can out damage it, as long as your target is over about 25%. Of course, I'm still Pre-Searing, didn't have time to finish up and go post this morning. I can see it's usefullness decline at higher levels, which is fine.)

I'm ashamed to admit I died in pre-searing (Bad habit from playing non-monk classes and generaly not needing to worry about my own red bar in teams), but it reminded me that I have to treat my monk differently once I get out of Pre-Searing. No biggie, as I wasn't aiming for a title grind, just a change of pace.

I'm going to look for a run to LA to try to pick up Heroes and map the RA in Yack's Bend, but beyond that, I'm going to pick up skills via quests ASAP (I'd rather not run with Retribution post searing). Heroes will let me practice a bit on them as I go questing, but I'll try to do missions with live people (Woho PUGging!).

If anyone's around tomorow morning (~5ish CST) and wouldn't mind helping me run to NF, I'd be quite greatful.

Beyond that, keep the tips coming in. I've found them useful so far. I also read though the general monk guide.

Equipment question. Is Wolf's Favor A good Long Term Focus for a monk? It's not quite a standard 20/20 foci, but it looks useful for hybred monks.

Antithesis · Apr 09, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Equipment question. Is Wolf's Favor A good Long Term Focus for a monk? It's not quite a standard 20/20 foci, but it looks useful for hybred monks.

HSR is much more useful in PvE than HCT. Most Monk skills are quick to cast.